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Please help a confused Wysiwyg user
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Advanced Member
Posts:52 Advanced Member

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2016-12-12 15:57

    Hello Everyone, this is my first post in this forum.

    I currently use Wysiwyg Perform (From R16 up-to R28 as I simply don't get enough of the kind of work that warrants continuing with such a significant level of annual investment.

    (I can understand Cast asking such a high Premium for entry to the platform as it is great but I dislike the membership scheme which penalises loyalty rather than rewards it. Currently their lease scheme is far more cost sensible but membership is terrible)

    My work starts with lighting plotting, mostly on quite modest size corporate events. Room plans and set drawings are usually a requirement too. Producing pitch visuals is a fairly new thing for me which developed off the back of test visuals when plotting in Wyg.

    I rarely do events that have budget for pre-vis but I use it a bit for my own benefit, and it is nice to have it available automatically once the lighting plot is done. (The one side that my version of Wyg is getting increasingly useless for as the fixture library is not updated outside of current membership)

    It seems that most other users (and supporting software like Capture) really splits what I want into two areas; CAD and tools for plots and pretty visuals and separate software for lighting pre-vis.

    Now that I have decided to totally give up on Wyg (eventually)I need to pick an alternative solution. Wyg will continue to be the main tool until I get myself up to speed with something else but that may take some time hence I am starting the process now.

    I could manage with my old wyg for plots and visuals and use my console for pre-vis (Chamsys MagicQ) but the internal vis is crude and I really don't want to have to do the same work twice on every project.

    So far, Capture Atlas seems to be best alternate choice for what I want, with only the lack of built-in CAD stopping it from being a total no-brainer. (last time I checked out Capture the paperwork side looked far too primitive but Atlas looks much better)

    The other stand-out option I've found is the combination Vectorworks with Spotlight and (was ESP)Vision.

    So far I haven't given Vectorworks any serious investigation as the initial investment is close to Wyg levels and I haven't checked to see what the ongoing annual cost is likely to be either. (it will be interesting to see if they get more aggressive pushing Vision now that it has been incorporated into Vectorworks)

    Capture is priced very competitively for entry and even better for ongoing costs. (zero for fixture additions and very reasonable charges for edition upgrades)

    This brings me to my current dilemma; which CAD software to use if I decide to try Capture.

    Obviously whatever I create needs to import seamlessly but I hope that would be easy with most CAD options once I understand what construction methods Capture (I know it's Atlas at the moment but I keep calling it Capture in my head) prefers.

    So, is there a guide anywhere on how to build CAD models that work 100% with Capture?

    Another consideration is compatibility with CAD drawings supplied from numerous sources. Venue and set drawings most often turn up as pdf's but can come in all manner of different formats. The one's I would hope to be able to work with the minimum of fuss would AutoCAD, Vectorworks and Sketch-up.

    dwg files in particular are often bastardised copies of the original site architect CAD which have had numerous tinkerings and additions from god-knows who. These are often a challenge to clean up in a non-native program but it needs to be done. It's also a bonus if a version of the file can be exported back to dwg or whatever once I've finished with it on occasions where a production manager is trying to co-ordinate multiple departments.

    So far I have managed to avoid having to buy any of these additional programs as Wyg has just about creaked it's way through most of the challenges. That will change if I move over to Capture.

    What are peoples opinions on which CAD software to use alongside Capture?

    Help with deciding which option is best would be extremely welcome.

    Obviously the cheaper the better but I am prepared to shell out for proper stuff if it is the sensible route to achieve my goals. (although while I can stomach a chunky initial outlay if warranted, I would prefer not to have to continuously pay ridiculously high annual charges to keep it usable, a token amount for support is OK)

    It would be extremely helpful if anyone would be prepared to share experiences and even examples of using Capture with more complex geometry (detailed sets/ venues, lots of furniture and the like) and pleasant/unpleasant findings when working with outside-sourced CAD files? (most of the examples I've seen are more gig lighting than corporate event, un-surprisingly)

    Thanks to anyone who has bothered to read this far and an even bigger thanks to anyone who can offer a little help.

    Cheers.

    Staff Member
    Posts:542 Staff Member

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    2016-12-13 11:06
    donkidonki wrote:

    And Capture replied in red


    Hello Everyone, this is my first post in this forum.

    I currently use Wysiwyg Perform (From R16 up-to R28 as I simply don't get enough of the kind of work that warrants continuing with such a significant level of annual investment.

    (I can understand Cast asking such a high Premium for entry to the platform as it is great but I dislike the membership scheme which penalises loyalty rather than rewards it. Currently their lease scheme is far more cost sensible but membership is terrible)

    Capture has an optional paid upgrade model whereas wyg has a subscription model.

    My work starts with lighting plotting, mostly on quite modest size corporate events. Room plans and set drawings are usually a requirement too. Producing pitch visuals is a fairly new thing for me which developed off the back of test visuals when plotting in Wyg.

    I rarely do events that have budget for pre-vis but I use it a bit for my own benefit, and it is nice to have it available automatically once the lighting plot is done. (The one side that my version of Wyg is getting increasingly useless for as the fixture library is not updated outside of current membership)

    Capture libraries get updated on a daily basis and this is one of the reasons why the paid upgrade is considered optional. You can read more in our licensing policies page.

    It seems that most other users (and supporting software like Capture) really splits what I want into two areas; CAD and tools for plots and pretty visuals and separate software for lighting pre-vis.

    Capture is an all in one solution, however there are no 3d modelling tools.

    Now that I have decided to totally give up on Wyg (eventually)I need to pick an alternative solution. Wyg will continue to be the main tool until I get myself up to speed with something else but that may take some time hence I am starting the process now.

    Capture has the fastest learning curve from all relevant software. Please spend 30 mins on our video tutorials and you will be up and running. Afterwards you can always visit the manual for further details.

    I could manage with my old wyg for plots and visuals and use my console for pre-vis (Chamsys MagicQ) but the internal vis is crude and I really don't want to have to do the same work twice on every project.

    Understandable, Capture has a very smooth connection to Chamsys so make sure you try it.

    So far, Capture Atlas seems to be best alternate choice for what I want, with only the lack of built-in CAD stopping it from being a total no-brainer. (last time I checked out Capture the paperwork side looked far too primitive but Atlas looks much better)

    You can import dwg/dxf/3ds/obj and skp files and there are many software that are powerful and free like sketchup and blender.

    The other stand-out option I've found is the combination Vectorworks with Spotlight and (was ESP)Vision.

    So far I haven't given Vectorworks any serious investigation as the initial investment is close to Wyg levels and I haven't checked to see what the ongoing annual cost is likely to be either. (it will be interesting to see if they get more aggressive pushing Vision now that it has been incorporated into Vectorworks)

    Capture is priced very competitively for entry and even better for ongoing costs. (zero for fixture additions and very reasonable charges for edition upgrades)

    This brings me to my current dilemma; which CAD software to use if I decide to try Capture.

    Obviously whatever I create needs to import seamlessly but I hope that would be easy with most CAD options once I understand what construction methods Capture (I know it's Atlas at the moment but I keep calling it Capture in my head) prefers.

    Capture is the software, Atlas is a product version, so referring to Capture is better for future readers of this post. Hello readers of the future...

    So, is there a guide anywhere on how to build CAD models that work 100% with Capture?

    There would be no such guide and our goal is to make import and export as seamless as possible.

    Another consideration is compatibility with CAD drawings supplied from numerous sources. Venue and set drawings most often turn up as pdf's but can come in all manner of different formats. The one's I would hope to be able to work with the minimum of fuss would AutoCAD, Vectorworks and Sketch-up.

    dwg and skp import as mentioned above. pdf import is not supported as we speak (Capture Atlas)

    dwg files in particular are often bastardised copies of the original site architect CAD which have had numerous tinkerings and additions from god-knows who. These are often a challenge to clean up in a non-native program but it needs to be done. It's also a bonus if a version of the file can be exported back to dwg or whatever once I've finished with it on occasions where a production manager is trying to co-ordinate multiple departments.

    So far I have managed to avoid having to buy any of these additional programs as Wyg has just about creaked it's way through most of the challenges. That will change if I move over to Capture.

    What are peoples opinions on which CAD software to use alongside Capture?

    Help with deciding which option is best would be extremely welcome.

    Having mentioned a few free options I will let other users mention their preferred ones.

    Obviously the cheaper the better but I am prepared to shell out for proper stuff if it is the sensible route to achieve my goals. (although while I can stomach a chunky initial outlay if warranted, I would prefer not to have to continuously pay ridiculously high annual charges to keep it usable, a token amount for support is OK)

    It would be extremely helpful if anyone would be prepared to share experiences and even examples of using Capture with more complex geometry (detailed sets/ venues, lots of furniture and the like) and pleasant/unpleasant findings when working with outside-sourced CAD files? (most of the examples I've seen are more gig lighting than corporate event, un-surprisingly)

    Thanks to anyone who has bothered to read this far and an even bigger thanks to anyone who can offer a little help.

    Thanks indeed!

    Cheers.

    Sales Director
    Capture Visualisation AB
    Advanced Member
    Posts:52 Advanced Member

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    2016-12-13 12:48

    Thank you Vangelis, that was very helpful.

    I feel I am pretty close to being decided now with Atlas and Sketchup taking the lead so far.

    Mind you TurboCad has also caught my attention. Pretty much all the CAD options have WAY more features than I need for the basic modelling that I do so my main considerations are ease of import/export across all the likely formats and then keeping the cost down to a minimum so I can afford as close as possible to Symphony edition straight away. (I like the sales model with how the versions scale but I'd much rather never have to worry about limitations)

    I have been watching as many Youtube tutorials as I can find on the various packages; there's certainly a lot of interesting stuff going on and I'm finding it all a bit overwhelming to be honest.

    I'm also having a poke around several of the demo's but this is just a cursory look at the moment as I'm doing it in-between other work.

    One thing I would like to know; is there an established way of building a model in any of the CAD programs and applying textures (and materials now that Atlas does that) which will import smoothly into Capture or is the preferred method to import clean basic models and apply all the materials and textures once it is all imported?

    I presume that any of the popular CAD programs will work well so long as you avoid using any in-compatible tools and elements in your model building?

    For example, most of the Sketchup models I've imported into the demo so far have averaged about 80-90% successful import with the failures mostly being alpha channel stuff. I'm guessing with a bit of experience these models could be tweaked in Sketchup/other CAD before importing to get closer to 100% true import?

    If no guide or tutorial exists at the moment then is there any chance of getting one done? I can't be the only prospective user who would like a bit more guidance on this side of things.

    If by this time next year I can translate how I currently work in Wyg and achieve plots and visuals of an equivalent standard AND regain the bonus of automatically having full pre-vis facilities each time, then I will be a very happy chappy.

    (and if no guide ever surfaces then I will try to provide one myself if I ever manage to get everything anywhere close to being mastered)

    Basic Member
    Posts:25 Basic Member

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    2016-12-13 15:12
    Hi,
    i was Wyg user and fan about it but start Capture migration to have an official software to use for my clients.

    I start to use Capture Polar and follow now all upgrade since.
    Capture is for me the most simply, powerfully lighting software i know.

    Most french light designer who tried Capture on my computer were impressed by software capacity...

    Try it ....and keep it

    Cheers
    Advanced Member
    Posts:52 Advanced Member

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    2016-12-13 17:01

    Boom! Welcome another Capture Us.......

    Damn Visa declined the "unusual" transaction,

    sort, sort, sort...

    and BOOM! Capture Atlas Quartet is mine.

    I almost stretched for Symphony but decided Quartet will do most of my projects quite comfortably and I can always upgrade if and when I ever need it.

    Now to sit through a bunch of Sketchup tutorials and have a crack at some models to import.

    Advanced Member
    Posts:52 Advanced Member

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    2016-12-13 17:15

    Another question if anyone can answer it?

    I know I will be able to try this for myself soon but some of you may have it all figured out already.

    Once a model is imported into Capture and has things like textures and materials applied, can you still edit the file in the original CAD program without losing said textures/materials?

    Advanced Member
    Posts:52 Advanced Member

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    2016-12-14 13:34

    Just a note to say that I'm pleased so far! (not got my teeth into things yet as my time is split umpteen different ways right now)

    I just had a quick play with the dockhouse demo and that is great, the first Capture example I've seen with good detail in the scenery along the same lines as I need sometimes.

    I have hit a few issues with navigation but have requested help for that separately, and will probably get that sorted anyway once i get some proper time getting my hands dirty.

    Promising start so far.

    Staff Member
    Posts:2019 Staff Member

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    2016-12-15 08:58

    Hi,

    I will try to answer a few of your questions;

    Q: One thing I would like to know; is there an established way of building a model in any of the CAD programs and applying textures (and materials now that Atlas does that) which will import smoothly into Capture or is the preferred method to import clean basic models and apply all the materials and textures once it is all imported?

    A: I guess we have a slightly different perspective; we try to ensure that we can read as much as possible from all supported file formats and fit that information into what Capture supports. So trouble arises when file formats can't carry all information and/or when Capture can't map the information to Capture features. Due to the sheer amount of 3D modelling packages and add-ons out there, writing an inclusive guide would be kind of difficult.

    Q: I presume that any of the popular CAD programs will work well so long as you avoid using any in-compatible tools and elements in your model building?

    A: Yes, that is the general principle.

    Q: For example, most of the Sketchup models I've imported into the demo so far have averaged about 80-90% successful import with the failures mostly being alpha channel stuff. I'm guessing with a bit of experience these models could be tweaked in Sketchup/other CAD before importing to get closer to 100% true import?

    A: Yep! :-)

    Q: If no guide or tutorial exists at the moment then is there any chance of getting one done? I can't be the only prospective user who would like a bit more guidance on this side of things.

    A: We are working on improving the manual in the sense of listing what the limitations are and what is expected to work. As an example, here are few things worth knowing:

    - Capture doesn't support alpha blended textures
    - Capture doesn't support double sided material applications
    - Capture doesn't support perspective/sheared texture applications
    - Capture has material parameters like metallic and smoothness which are not supported by any imported file format

    Q: Once a model is imported into Capture and has things like textures and materials applied, can you still edit the file in the original CAD program without losing said textures/materials?

    A: I'm not sure I follow but if you are envisioning an iterative (re-edit, re-import and repeat) process I'm afraid that is not very easy to accomplish.

    Technical Director
    Capture Visualisation AB
    Advanced Member
    Posts:52 Advanced Member

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    2016-12-15 10:45

    Hi Lars, Thank you very much for your answers and your lovely product!

    I would like to elaborate on one of the questions if possible?

    "Q: Once a model is imported into Capture and has things like textures and materials applied, can you still edit the file in the original CAD program without losing said textures/materials?

    A: I'm not sure I follow but if you are envisioning an iterative (re-edit, re-import and repeat) process I'm afraid that is not very easy to accomplish."

    Example:

    Client supplies set drawings which I use to create a model in say, Sketchup. As I would like to achieve visuals as well as lighting plots I put a reasonable amount of detail into the model, textures and materials being used. (I still have to work out whether textures/materials can be done in the cad an imported or are best done within Atlas).

    Everything is good.

    Then the client comes back with changes/additions. I need to make changes to the model.

    (I presume this bit varies depending on the earlier part where texture/material is done in cad or Atlas) If I pick the most "compatible" methods to create models, can I either still work on the Atlas version of the file in the cad program or at least export the model without losing any texture/material detail I have added inside Atlas?

    If not, revisions to the cad model will mean completely we-working the model back into Atlas which would get boring quickly.

    Thinking about it, I'm guessing the answer would be to import models broken into as many components as possible so at least the amount of reworking could be limited somewhat?

    (One other note, I tried importing a 3d warehouse model of an Avolites Sapphire Touch and experimented by saving/exporting in loads of formats from Sketchup 2017. By far the best results without any tweaks to the model were the 3ds format; it only failed to show the "screen" textures. Any tips on how to tweak the model in sketchup to remove the alpha/double sided bits?)

    Advanced Member
    Posts:52 Advanced Member

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    2016-12-15 10:49

    "

    (I presume this bit varies depending on the earlier part where texture/material is done in cad or Atlas) If I pick the most "compatible" methods to create models, can I either still work on the Atlas version of the file in the cad program or at least export the model without losing any texture/material detail I have added inside Atlas?"

    AND the texture/materials remain in place once the edited model is re-imported back into Atlas.

    Another way to ask the same question; is there anyway to make texture/material information bi-directional between cad program and Atlas?

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